My Response
Thanks Mahe, I can only try.

Therefore times are changing but it hurts to see reverse discrimination when one is the victim. For a person who has never embraced the caste system to be discriminated against using some reservationist criteria can be quite disheartening. The sad part is there is no end to these sorts of policies once the start. In fact they get misused quite often and the momentum is such that it will gradually lead to a lot of talent leaving the country because their own leaders forced them out of jobs and education. Only mediocrity sheltered by a protectionist mindset will remain and God help anyone who has to go to a hospital for treatment 20 years from now! You will probably be treated by a doctor who only had to get 50% of his paper correct at medical school.

Thalai vali avan avanukku vanthaa thaan therium…. Only if u r a dalit,u can understand the atrocities made to them…(sometimes those are done in the background).

I wanted to add something else to my earlier comment #14. A lot has already been said by anti-reservationists about ‘eye-fo-eye-making-the-whole-world-blind’ etc etc. I ask, what next? Are you going to force people to marry someone out of their caste? RVPaswan might say, ‘Sure, why not?’.
Before you accuse me of going tangential, let me explain. It is all a matter of my choice. If I am a bigot and refuse to recruit dalits, it is my choice! How different is it from refusing to allow a dalit (or for that matter anyone) into my house. Isnt that my personal decision? If my house is my private property and hence I can refuse you entry into my house… why cant we extend the same logic to my 2-employee pan shop/grocery shop/video library. Extend the same logic to a SSI. As long as I run the company/firm using my capital and without recourse to public funds… as long as I pay my taxes fine… would it be ethical for the government to bully me into recruiting someone I dont want?
Assuming that the government succeeds in coercing me into recruiting someone I dont want… what would the government do if my business folds over? Would it pay me anything towards my ‘perceived losses’? Hold on, I am NOT saying that recruiting a dalit would result in my business going under. I am just talking about a possibility. Can RVPaswan give me a guarantee that I wont incur any losses? If my business fails even after I recruit someone I CHOOSE, I have no one to complain against - it’s strictly a bad decision on my part. But if the government doesnt want me to recruit my first preference candidate and choose the second preference candidate (say, a dalit)…. cant I blame the government for my failure?
How can someone force me to do something against my wishes. Forget legal and constitutional for a while (reservations in private sector could be made ‘constitutional’ by a bunch of short-sighted vote-bank politicians)… is it ethical?

Coming to the issue of discrimination, I can understand if someone told me that a brahminical company would prefer a brahmin against a non-brahmin all other things being equal. But why on earth would some businessman prefer A over B even if A is inferior in qualifications (scores, marks, degrees - or whatever the relevant criteria might be). Such a decision would be taken only by those people who dont have a stake in the proceedings - like the myopic Indian politicans.

Finally, why are we talking about reservations in private sector NOW? Why did no one talk about this 30-40 years back? When the tatas and birlas were still bigger than most government bodies? Is it because private sector is offering better jobs now? Is RVPaswan like a hound who smelt blood? A recognition that he doesnt have a finger in the pie that is growing?

Why are most government bodies stinking of inefficiency? Why is Tata Steel doing better than government steel plants? Why is Infosys doing better than CMC (which used to be a govt run company till sometime back)? Privatization was supposed to be make things more efficient, more cost-effective. And this is possible only if it is meritocratic, not bureaucratic. I rest my case.

My Response
Raghu,
Almost ALL of your points have been debated Here and at the Acorn link. I again humbly advise you to read them before raising often-repeated arguments.

My Response
“Would you get treated someone you know get operated upon by a doctor who could not even clear the medical entrance test… and who stood last in his/her medical course?”
First of all, to give an example, not all reserved category students are how you have describe them. There was a case in the prestigious Medical Institute of AIIMS in New Delhi, where a reserved category student had got higher markes then anyone (reserved or unreserved), but denied admission because the higher caste employee who’s ego got hurt made sure of that. Also, if you forgot, even one of the Indian President was from a Dalit community.
Second, those doctors will ask for extremely less fees,so atleast the poorer sections of society can get medical attention. I’m sure you won’t go there, but don’t be surprised if many others will. How much is that different from Indians in US going to Indian doctors because they ask for less fees? They can do what the patient wants, so why go to a better doctor who will rip you off? This is not to say that all Indian doctors are worse, but the same thing can be said of the dalits. Not all dalit doctors are worse than the higher castes too.

To answer your question, yes I will. I’ve also seen many affluent sections of society going to doctors who are dalits, not just OBCs.

Reservation exist as a side-effect of existance of pre-judices in society, not just because it should be there. If there was no pre-judice, there would be no need of reservation. Why reservation? Because it has shown resutls in government departments. The government will go for a policy that is proven somewhere, rather than something else.

Reservations is a way to get the exposure to higher trechniques of working and better experience. The same can be said of Indians wanting to go abroad to get better exposure to techniques and apply them back home. Reservations will ensure that the lower sections are getting good exposure to newer techniques too, and inspire others from their community to aspire for better living and higher learning.

Even US has a quota for developing countries to come there and work\study. May be, you forget that because you got benefitted by that, but don’t like the same thing happening in your own country. What was that you mentioned about being selfish …just kidding.

My Response
“why isnt anyone talking about reservations for women?”
I talk about reservation of women, and all other prejudiced sections of the society. (Of course you are selfish, that’s why you want to keep the depressed classes depressed ). But not many from society will oppose reservations for women, while as you can see from the debates, many in society oppose reservations for backward castes. Why?

“My personal experience showed me that a disproportionate number of ‘reserved’ students were at the bottom of the class rankings.”
I’m sure you must’ve seen things happening in your colleges that no one would want to see. Frankly, I’ve seen it in some places too. But I also noticed that in many places (not just in Andhra Pradesh) there are a extremely high number of colleges who take students merely based on the donation money. Why did you forget to mention that? While the disproportionate number of ‘reserved’ students were at the bottom of the class rankings because they might have to work while studying, or can’t afford books, or don’t have electricity at homes (so they could study) and basically be there in an unsupportive society and environment (some might not deserve it, but why generalise). But the people who could afford donations, were lowly ranked almost entirely because they were partying or having fun (Some might have genuine reasons, but how many are they?). Would you want to go to such doctors because they have a last name of a higher caste?

Mandal report ‘reports’ the situation of the backward classes in Indian society, and then recommends corrective measures to rectify it. If the situation of backward classes were good enough, there would’ve been no reasons to recommend and corrective measures.

“Question: But why the injustice against the higher castes?
Answer: Higher castes are rich enough and connected enough (if not rich) to people with resources to get them out of the hole they might find themselves in from time to time. Depressed classes are not.”
All roses are red and all higher caste people are rich! A very poor generalization indeed.

Have you heard of this lady called Mayawati from UP? While I havent seen it, I heard that she treats the ‘upper caste’ IAS/IPS officers in UP like scum - making them sit cross legged in front of her while she sits in a chair.

So discrimination works both ways - upper and lower castes. If you observe more closely, the powerful (due to richness or education or physical strength etc) have always dominated the less powerful people. So, why do you want to extend the reservations only to those belonging to lower castes? Why dont you suggest reservations to physically disabled (already there), economically backward (what gaurav sabnis suggests), corporate training (what Indian industry suggested) etc.?

This sort of reverse discrimination would make India more casteist. Is that what you want?

My Response
“I hear a threat here. ‘Dont-protest-or-else-all-of-us-will-suffer’ kind of thing.”
Its not a threat, its a reality. You mentioned you were from Andhra Pradesh, so you must’ve heard about the Naxalite problem, and the reasons behind it. They had been left on the bottom side of the tree, so they’re reacting violently. And this is just one part of India, if the gap continues to grow, it’ll soon start happening all over the country. Would you like to be a prisoner in your own country, so that you (or your family) doesn’t get harmed or robbed?

“All roses are red and all higher caste people are rich! A very poor generalization indeed.”
I’m sure not all higher castes are rich or connected enough, but they certainly are not prejudiced against when being looked up for a job opening. The fact that you have given me one example of Mayavati treating higher castes with disdain and forgot to mention thousands of examples of higher castes treating the dalits with utter disregard to human dignity, itself shows how much un-prejudiced you yourself will behave when you find yourself in a position to choose.

“Why dont you suggest reservations to physically disabled (already there), economically backward (what gaurav sabnis suggests), corporate training (what Indian industry suggested) etc.”
Your raising this point shows that you’ve read the things that most suit your arguments and didn’t pay attention to things that don’t suit your argument. Please read the whole set of arguments and post carefully, so I don’t have to waste space and time arguing about things already mentioned.

“This sort of reverse discrimination would make India more casteist. Is that what you want?”
No. But Is India not highly casteist now? Higher castes will feel the pinch of keeping the caste system alive, sometime or the other. If your idea of making India less casteist is to just keep the one-sided casteism alive where the dalits keep towing the higher castes’ excreta and get their insults, then I’m assuming you are also one of the ‘highly educated’ Indians who responds only when Indians are the targets of racism but forget what that same ‘highly educated’ Indian does to his servant back home in India. I’ll refer you to another example of what ‘highly’ educated’ Indians are capable of (http://unsaid.blogsome.com/2005/12/11/dowry-terrorism/) when it comes to robbing their own caste people, leave alone someone from the other caste.